Tech Talk – December 2017

Have you added tile edge protection to your installation project?

How often are you including tile edge protection in your tile assembly specifications? Although not required for all installations, edge protection absolutely provides better results.

By Scott Carothers,
CTEF Director of Certification
and Training

Ultimately, if you’re serious about delivering only high-quality installations of ceramic, porcelain and stone tile, you must have the hand-skills to put the entire tile assembly into place along with the knowledge of what products are available to finish the project successfully.

Thinking about protecting tile edges is a perfect example.

What is tile edge protection?

You wouldn’t be in this business if you didn’t have an appreciation for how perfectly ceramic and porcelain tile function as floor and wall finishes. Tile is beautiful, durable, and easily maintained.

It has an amazing performance record and inspires intense product innovation.

Critical to your well-earned reputation is ensuring that your tile installation will perform despite heavy traffic. Edge profiles do the following:

  • Protect tile edges from chipping,
  • Provide easy transitions between adjacent floor and wall surfaces.
  • Deliver a design element that is often ignored.
Specify each component of the tile assembly

On most commercial tile jobs, the specifications clearly call out each component of the tile assembly, but not always.

However, on many residential jobs, the various items necessary for a good job may be overlooked.

Whether the project is commercial or residential, the tile installer is the last person on the job who should provide his or her input and expertise so that the ceramic tile installation is pleasing to the eye and will stand the test of time.

Don’t skip the little details!

Unfortunately the ultimate success of the completed project sometimes gets lost in the rush to get it done yesterday or in the little details that sometimes fall through the cracks.

Whatever the reason, the edge profile moldings are sometimes not included in the job. And yet, as mentioned above, these profiles play two key roles:

To provide a pleasing transition to the adjacent floor finish

To protect the edge of the tile, which may be a factory edge or a cut

Lack of edge protection means chipped tile

As seen in the photo below, which was taken from a hotel breakfast area, the edge of the wood-look ceramic tile is significantly chipped after only a few years of service.

Without the metal profile to protect the edge of the tile, unsightly chipping can (and does) occur.

In this case, the combination of the housekeeper’s sweeper and the metal legged chairs has taken its toll on the tile.

Consider exacerbating conditions

As you may have noticed in the photo above, the low-pile commercial carpet is 1/8” of an inch below the edge of the tile. This factor would definitely exacerbate the problem.

This may be particularly challenging, because you may not know the carpet pile height when discussing and developing a mockup for the project. Unless you consider the various possibilities, you may overlook the right product needed to finish the project successfully.

The tile otherwise has served the area well and looks great, but the chipped tile along the edge makes the entire job look unsatisfactory and unacceptable.

The real problem here is that when consumers see problems of this type, they often decide not to use tile in their next project. Their rationale is simple. If tile looks and performs like this (as seen in the photo), they don’t want it and will pick something else, which means everyone in the tile industry loses the job.

Proactive input eliminates problems

A small amount of proactive input prior to the job beginning would have eliminated this problem.

Many times the installer is not consulted on the design end of the project. But in this case, the installer gets blamed for the ugly result when in reality, he or she had no part in the process. The really odd thing about this hotel upgrade project is that all of the other installed tile surfaces included edge profiles.

The point here is that, as an installer, you should speak up and make recommendations that will enhance the project outcome and be a long-lasting testimonial to the durability and beauty of properly installed ceramic tile.

Certification signals your commitment to details like tile edge protection

If you haven’t already, consider becoming a Certified Tile Installer (CTI). As a CTI, you set yourself apart from the crowd and know how to anticipate tile installation problems before they occur.

Do it right the first time and get paid accordingly. Visit https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/tile-certification-overview-ctef for details.

Business Tip – December 2017

Using magic words: understand Pay-If-Paid vs. Pay-When-Paid clauses in construction agreements

By Daniel A. Dorfman,
HARRIS • WINICK • HARRIS LLP

There are countless ways for a construction project to go awry. The first claims that come to mind are those based on delays or defective workmanship, but perhaps even more common are the potential claims that arise when a general contractor does not receive payment from the owner, but remains potentially liable to its subcontractors for work performed. Like most construction disputes, the answer to the question of whether or when a general contractor is liable for payment to its subcontractors starts (and often ends) with the language of the contract.

Case study

Beal Bank Nevada v. Northshore Center THC, 64 N.E.3d. 201, 407 Ill. Dec. 823 (1st Dist. 2016) is a recent case from the Appellate Court of Illinois (First District) discussing this issue, and providing guidance to understanding payment risks in a construction agreement in the context of pay-when-paid vs. pay-if-paid clauses.

The facts of the Northshore Center are simple. Northshore Center THC, LLC (“Owner”) borrowed funds from BankFirst to develop real estate in Northbrook, Illinois. The Owner entered into an agreement with a General Contractor, FCL Investors, Inc. (“General Contractor”), to perform certain construction work at the Northbrook site. The General Contractor then entered into a subcontract with Lake County Grading Company, LLC (“Subcontractor”) to provide excavation work, sewer line installation, and other construction services. The Subcontractor performed its work and issued several invoices to the General Contractor, which the General Contractor submitted to the Owner. The Owner failed to pay the General Contractor, who in turn didn’t pay the Subcontractor.

When the parties were unable to resolve their differences, a lawsuit ensued. The main issue between the General Contractor and the Subcontractor concerned whether the subcontract required the General Contractor to pay the Subcontractor’s invoices even though it was undisputed that the Owner had not yet paid the General Contractor. The relevant portions of payment clause in the subcontract provided that:

The Contractor will make partial payments to the Subcontractor in an amount equal to 90 percent of the estimated value of work and materials incorporated in the construction and an amount equal to 90 percent of the materials delivered to and suitably and properly stored by the Subcontractor at the Project site, to the extent of Subcontractor’s interest in the amounts allowed thereon and paid to Contractor by the Owner, less the aggregate of previous payments, within five (5) days of receipt thereof from the Owner.

The trial court reviewed this payment clause and ruled that payment by the Owner was a condition precedent to the General Contractor’s obligation to pay its Subcontractor:

[T]he provisions outlined in the subcontract at issue clearly make the receipt of payment from the Owner to [the General Contractor] the condition precedent to the [Subcontractor’s] payment. The condition precedent has not been satisfied as [the General Contractor] has not received payment from Owner.

Therefore, because the Owner had not paid the General Contractor, the trial court determined that the General Contractor could not have breached the subcontract by failing to pay the Subcontractor.

The Subcontractor appealed. The Appellate Court reversed the trial court and found that the payment clause in the subcontract did not contain a condition precedent requiring the General Contractor to be first paid by Owner. Instead, the Appellate Court ruled that the payment clause in the subcontract governed only the amount and timing of payments, not the threshold obligation of the General Contractor to compensate the Subcontractor (even if the General Contractor had not been paid by the Owner).

In so holding, The Appellate Court applied the following “useful framework” for distinguishing between pay-if-paid clauses and pay-when-paid clauses in construction agreements:

A pay-when-paid clause governs the timing of a contractor’s payment obligation to the subcontractor, usually by indicating that the subcontractor will be paid within some fixed time period after the contractor itself is paid by the property owner…. In contrast, a pay-if-paid clause provides that the subcontractor will be paid only if the contractor is paid and thus ensures that each contracting party bears the risk of loss only for its own work.

Applying that framework, the Appellate Court determined that the contractual provision in the subcontract was a pay-when-paid clause, which governed only the timing of payment, and not a pay-if-paid clause, which would have governed the General Contractor’s obligation to pay. In other words, in this case, the Court concluded that there was no condition precedent to payment; the General Contractor had to pay the Subcontractor whether or not the Owner had paid.

Lessons learned 

Northshore Center is an illustrative case study on the importance of payment provisions in construction agreements being drafted so that they are particularly clear and unambiguous with respect to their pay-if-paid intentions. In our experience, many subcontract agreements in Illinois have payment provisions that do not sufficiently identify that payment by the owner is a condition precedent. As demonstrated by Northshore Center, even language as clear as “to the extent” is inadequate. Without the “magic word,” i.e. “if,” that makes it clear that the general contractor’s payment obligation to its subcontractor exists only “if” payment is made by the owner to the general contractor, the general contractor will likely bear the risk of payment even where the owner doesn’t pay the general contractor. The first and best protection against such unnecessary payment risk is a well-written contract. Pay-if-paid clauses offer greater protection to general contractors and should be a consideration on all sides during the drafting process.

A copy of Beal Bank Nevada v. Northshore Center THC, 64 N.E.3d 201, 407 Ill. Dec. 823 (1st Dist. 2016) is available here at http://bit.ly/2pDSg8w.

Contact 

If you have any questions about this HWH Legal Alert, please feel free to directly contact Daniel Dorfman at (312) 662-4609 (ddorfman@hwhlegal.com). This legal alert is provided by Harris Winick Harris LLP for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended, and should not be construed, as legal advice.

Daniel Dorfman is a construction lawyer in Chicago, Illinois, with the law firm of Harris Winick Harris LLP. Daniel has a national construction practice, representing owners, developers, engineers, architects, designers, general contractors, subcontractors, specialty trades, and construction suppliers in all types of commercial construction disputes. Daniel is licensed to practice in the State of Illinois, United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, and the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit. Daniel received his J.D., cum laude, from Northwestern University School of Law.

Ask the Experts – December 2017

This month’s Ask the Experts focuses on two recent questions concerning installing resin-backed stone.

QUESTION

Can you give me some guidance on working with resin-backed stone?

ANSWER

The issue that we have with resin-backed stone is there is no standardization. The backing could be composed of epoxy, polyester, urethane or a variety of other types of resin.  If there was some consistency to the resin backing, setting materials manufacturers could probably produce thinset that would work. Epoxy adhesives are the safest bet, and should always be used on moisture-sensitive stone.

When installing resin-backed stone, you should contact the stone provider for installation instructions. Many of them are not suitable for installations in wet areas.

The 2017 TCNA Handbook addresses some of this in the Natural Stone selection guide on page 10. The NTCA Reference Manual has a tremendous amount of information about this situation in its mesh-backed stone white paper on page 179. Both will point you toward the use of epoxy adhesives.

Somemanufacturersoftheseresin-backedstoneshaveincorporatedsandandotheraggregatestotheirbackingstohelpwithamechanicalbond,andmakeclaimsthatalatex-modifiedthinsetcanbeused.Iknowpeoplehavescarifiedandorprimedthebackofthesetilesinordertousemodifiedthinset.Withouttheendorsementofthethinsetmanufacturerandthestoneprovider,theseinstallationsarerisky.Iwouldproceedwithcaution.

Robb Roderick, NTCA trainer/presenter

QUESTION

I installed a large resin-backed marble tile on a fireplace wall with a glass-covered fireplace insert that produces a lot of heat, and measured tiled surface temp was about 250+ degrees in direct vicinity of the firebox. I have several issues.

Issue one – We used a polymer-modified thinset to install the tile.  I didn’t realize till after the job was done that it does not stick to resin-backed tile.

Issue two – Upon further research I should have used an epoxy thinset, but from what I was told it is only okay for temps up to 180 degrees.

Issue three – Is the resin on the back of the tile okay to be in contact with that kind of heat?

I am receiving very little help from my tile supplier, I have a very unhappy client, and I am eager to make the fix but I need to know the correct approach so I don’t have a problem again.

Thanks in advance for your help.

ANSWER

There are no industry standards for the resin/resin-mesh backing on stones. The best way to learn what the resin is composed of and what its temperature rating is, is to get the information on it from the manufacturer or stone quarry that put it on the stone, or a lab can examine it. I personally do not have information on the temperature ratings of various resins used on stone backing.

You can reference the NTCA’s Mesh Backed Stone and Tile White Paper (see the Stone section in this issue, page 78 for the paper), which discusses the other issues you described. This information should help give you a better understanding of the application of resin-backed stones in various installations.

It sounds like you will be considering a tear-out and rebuild to ensure that you achieve the proper bond and meet the temperature range of this particular fireplace. I suggest contacting the stone manufacturer/quarry to determine the type of resin, or if that isn’t possible, replace it with a stone that is not resin/resin-mesh backed. I also suggest contacting the manufacturer of the setting materials (i.e. thinset mortar or epoxy and grout) that you will plan to use to set the stone. Many product Technical Data Sheets include this information and can be found on their manufacturer’s websites, or a call to their technical service department will help you determine the correct setting materials to withstand the temperature ranges for this product.

Mark Heinlein – CTI #1112, NTCA Training Director and Technical Trainer / Presenter

TECH TIP TUESDAY: ASK MARK – 11/28/17

Contractor Member Question

Mark,

The photo attached shows a stain in the marble, my client used stone poultice to pull out the stain, then sealed the tile. Everything was fine until she took a shower for the first time, and the stain reappeared. What are your thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mark’s Response

Thank you for contacting the National Tile Contractors Association.
It appears to me the stain (or darkening) may possibly be caused by water pooling beneath the tile in a potential low spot formed in that section of the shower pan.  Do you know if the darkening of the stone lightens with time / as it dries out?  It may or may not be a possibility that the initial removing of the “stain” by application of a poultice may have been coincidental to the stone simply drying out (i.e. from mortar curing under the stone).
I have attached a copy of the NTCA’s Mesh Backed Stone and Tile white paper.  This may shed some more light on the issue with this installation.
Many sealers protect the molecular structure of the tile from staining but do not keep water from passing into the stone and potentially darkening it. To learn more about how sealers work, here is a link to a complete listing of NTCA’s archived webinars.  https://www.tile-assn.com/?page=webinars
Please view the webinars I’ve listed below for more information on how sealers work and other relevant information:
I hope this helps.
Mark Heinlein
Technical Training Director

TECH TIP TUESDAY: ASK MARK – 11/21/17

Contractor Member Question

Mark,

Is there a way to determine what a stain on the surface of a tile is? We run into this problem every once in awhile.  I currently have a job that has been complete for a few months and they have sent pictures claiming the spots are thinset, membrane or grout.  I do not believe they are any of those things. Is there a way to tell? Please advise.

Mark’s Response

A recognized tile consultant either owns, or has access to laboratory technology that can test deposits on the surface of tiles.
A list of NTCA’s recognized consultants can be found on the NTCA website at this link:  http://www.tile-assn.com/?page=recconsultants
Any of the consultants listed on this page should be able to assist you.
I hope this helps.
Mark Heinlein
Technical Training Director

Business Tip – November 2017

Many private business owners elect to incorporate, turning their companies into C corporations. But, at some point, you may consider converting to an S corporation. This isn’t necessarily a bad idea, but it’s important to know the ramifications involved.

Similarities and differences

S and C corporations use many of the same recordkeeping practices. Both types of entities maintain books, records and bank accounts separate from those of their owners. They also follow state rules regarding annual directors’ meetings, fees and administrative filings. And both must pay and withhold payroll taxes for working owners who are active in the business.

There are, however, a few important distinctions. First, S corporations don’t incur corporate-level tax, so they don’t report federal (and possibly state) income tax expenses on their income statements. Also, S corporations generally don’t report prepaid income taxes, income taxes payable, or deferred income tax assets and liabilities on their balance sheets.

As an S corporation owner, you’d pay tax at the personal level on your share of the corporation’s income and gains. The combined personal tax obligations of S corporation owners can be significant at higher income levels.

Dividends vs. distributions

Other financial reporting differences between a C corporation and S corporation are more subtle. For instance, when C corporations pay dividends, they’re taxed twice: They pay tax at the corporate level when the company files its annual tax return, and the individual owners pay again when dividends and liquidation proceeds are taxed at the personal level.

When S corporations pay distributions – the name for dividends paid by S corporations – the payout generally isn’t subject to personal-level tax as long as the shares have positive tax “basis.” (S corporation basis is typically a function of capital contributions, earnings and distributions.)

Risk of tax audits 

C corporations may be tempted to pay owners deductible above-market salaries to get cash out of the business and avoid the double taxation that comes with dividends. Conversely, S corporation owners may try to maximize tax-free distributions and pay owners below-market salaries to minimize payroll taxes.

The IRS is on the lookout for both scenarios. Corporations that compensate owners too much or too little may find themselves under audit. Regardless of entity type, an owner’s compensation should always be commensurate with his or her skills, experience and business involvement.

The right decision

For businesses that qualify (see sidebar), an S corporation conversion may be a wise move. But, as noted, there are rules and risks to consider. Also, as of this writing, there are tax reform proposals under consideration in Washington that could affect the impact of a conversion.

CTDA helps you succeed in your business through a variety of programs and services that include educational opportunities, webinars, and discounts on shipping, client collection services, telephone charges, auto rentals, and more. CTDA offers networking and relationship-building opportunities through participation in Total Solutions Plus all-industry conference and Coverings annual trade show. Membership in CTDA also increases your national exposure and gives you access to the annual membership survey, a valuable resource to evaluate your company in terms of profit improvement, employee compensation, distribution and company performance. The CTDA website, CTDA Educational Opportunities, Weekly Newsletters and TileDealer Blog are all free resources that will “keep you in the loop” as well. CTDA is always looking for ways to improve the benefits of membership. To learn more about membership, please contact info@ctdahome.org or 630-545-9415 visit the website at www.ctdahome.org. Like CTDA on Facebook and Twitter @Ceramic Tile Distributors Association (CTDA). 

Ask the Experts – November 2017

QUESTION

I want to install porcelain tile in my kitchen and my condo association requires a 1/4” cork underlayment for sound mitigation, but my installer and everyone else I’ve spoken with tells me I shouldn’t use cork in a wet area. One installer told me that the NTCA does not recognize 1/4” cork as a suitable substrate for tile applications. Can you tell me if that’s true and, if so, is there some documentation about this that I can present to my condo association?

ANSWER

In the NTCA Reference Manual, cork is listed as a questionable substrate for tile. There are several other bonded sound-reduction membranes that are designed specifically for tile installations. Bonded sound reduction membranes may be trowel-applied, sheet, or composite membranes that are bonded to a suitable substrate so that tile can be bonded directly to the membrane. Their purpose is to reduce floor impact noise.

Material specifications for these products are contained in ANSI 118.13. I suggest finding a substitute for the cork that meets ANSI 118.13. Take the technical data from that product and present it to your condo association for approval. I hope this helps.

Robb Roderick,
NTCA Technical Trainer/Presenter

QUESTION

Can you please tell me what the tolerance for lippage for 6”x 36” plank tile would be? The builder is quoting 1/8” which they said is the thickness of two quarters. The tile seems good the long way but the short way – walking across in your bare feet – you feel it.

ANSWER

The American National Standard Specification for the Installation of Ceramic Tile (ANSI A108) defines acceptable lippage for Pressed Floor and Porcelain Tile that meets the specifications for ceramic tile (found in ANSI A137.1) for typical installations of tile to be as follows:

  • All sizes of Pressed Floor and Porcelain Tiles with grout joint widths of 1/16” wide to less than 1/4” wide: Allowable lippage is 1/32”.
  • All sizes of Pressed Floor and Porcelain Tiles with grout joint widths of 1/4” wide or greater: Allowable lippage is 1/16”.

For reference: 1/32” is roughly the thickness of a credit card. 1/16” is roughly the thickness of one penny.

The plank tile you describe is very likely a Pressed Floor and Porcelain Tile. The manufacturer of the tile can tell you whether it was manufactured to the specifications in ANSI A137.1 (it is usually printed on the carton).

I would be happy to discuss any questions your builder or tile installation contractor may have about lippage or other installation standards that can have an effect on lippage.

Mark Heinlein – CTI #1112,
NTCA Training Director;
Technical Trainer / Presenter

QUESTION

Does a shower pan membrane need to be a solid, continuous piece, or is it all right if one corner is completely sliced up and then caulk applied to all cracks? It seems unsafe, and the weight of the concrete and tile could break open all of the cuts. Please help. Thank you very much.

ANSWER

It sounds like you are having a traditional mortar bed type installation constructed that utilizes a waterproofing liner over a pre-sloped pitch.

It is critical to install this, or any type of waterproofing system, in a manner consistent with tile industry methods and standards and manufacturer’s instructions. Rips, tears, cuts, punctures and improperly-sealed seams lead to leaks and failures of the system. With any type of shower installation, I recommend conducting a water test of the system before mortar is placed. In many locales, this is a code requirement placed on the plumbing permit.

The proper methods and details to construct this and many other type of shower pan installations can be found in the TCNA Handbook. If your contractor is a member of the National Tile Contractors Association they will have a copy of this handbook and know how to use it. They should also have a copy of the ANSI A108 standards that provide detailed instructions for the requirements of mud bed installations.

I will be happy to speak to your installation contractor to help them with any questions they may have about this or any other installation. Please feel free to have them contact me. If they are an NTCA member, they are familiar with this service we provide our members. If they are not a member, I would be happy to discuss with them the many benefits of membership including technical support, free training opportunities and obtaining and using the industry standards to base their installations on.

I hope this helps!

Mark Heinlein – CTI #1112,
NTCA Training Director;
Technical Trainer/Presenter

OCTOBER 2017: BUSINESS TIP – NTCA launches new Career Center

Sponsored By:

NTCA has added an updated, high-powered Career Center to its list of member benefi ts that allows you to bypass extraneous listings you’ll find on commercial job boards. The NCTA Career Center is tailored specifically for you. There are opportunities for both job seekers and employers. Job seekers can manage their job search, access job postings, post a resume, or join the job alert system. Employers can quickly post job openings, manage online recruiting efforts, advance resume searching, or reach targeted qualified applicants.

Job Seekers

The Career Center is designed to provide you with a better overall experience through a modern design and an intuitive interface. You will be able to access the Career Center through any device of your choice- smartphone, tablet, or desktop. Job seekers Once you create an account you can start and track your search. There’s an ability to manage resumes and set job alerts.

And the services to job seekers are free! In the Find a Job section, there is a listing of hand-picked employment opportunities culled from the web. Next to this listing is a link that enables you to upload your resume, and allow employers to find you! You can tailor your job search by state or do a nationwide search for the type of position you seek, and return 10-100 results at a time. In the Resources section, there is a collection of articles that will help you with a range of job related activities, like honing your resume, preparing for an interview and even planning a career change or using digital tools to network and gain exposure.

You can also schedule a session with a career expert who can coach you and answer your questions in one business day.

Employers
There are a number of recruitment options available for employers, starting from a single,
30-day job posting, and a number of enhanced packages. Search for
resumes, keep track of candidates, post information about your company, and much more. A template tab allows you to store letters, job posting templates and templates for questions you want to ask someone considering a career with your company.
Development of this iteration of the Career Center is in direct
response to NTCA member feedback. “One of the most consistent messages we have heard from our members recently is that the tile industry offers numerous career paths,” said Bart Bettiga, executive director. “From sales and installation, to training and technical assistance, to business and project management; there are so many great jobs for people who commit to learning about tile and stone.

We at the NTCA are excited to offer an easy-to-use program that will allow for people to post their resume to explore their options at furthering their career. As more and more people do this, we will be able to help connect companies looking for qualified people in the tile and stone industry to these candidates.”
Access the Career Center on the home page of the NTCA website at www.tile-assn.com or
paste either of these links in your browser: http://bit.ly/2yENKhA or http://careerwebsite.com.

October 2017: TileLetter – Ask the Experts

QUESTION
I have a floor installation with a relative humidity reading of over 90%. Can you advise me of steps I might take to prevent a failure in this installation?

ANSWER
This is a very high reading and beyond the capabilities of most setting materials. In general, most setting products perform well with readings of 3 lbs/1,000 sq. ft./24 hours in calcium chloride test, or readings less than 75% using a relative humidity test. The effect of moisture on floor covering is a huge problem across the United States. Not addressing this issue with a moisture mitigation system will affect the longevity and performance of this installation and probably lead to some type of failure. Some manufacturers have moisture mitigation systems that include waterproofing membrane, and specific thinset mortars that are warrantable up to 12 lbs/1,000 sq. ft. and above 90% relative humidity. My advice to you is to use a moisture mitigation system and the appropriate setting materials that can handle that level of moisture.

There are thousands of setting products that are affected by differing amounts of moisture in a variety of ways. Using the information you have received from a relative humidity test in concert with technical data from your setting material provider is paramount for a successful installation.
– Robb Roderick,
NTCA technical trainer/presenter

 

QUESTION
I was helping a friend with a concrete shower base install and ran into a problem. We poured the concrete base with the required portland cement/sand mixture at the correct slope. About a month after the tile install, the grout started chipping out. After regrouting it continued to fall apart. We pulled up the tile and it came up pretty easy. It’s been about five days now and the concrete still looks wet. I cleared out the area around the drain to make sure the weep holes were clear and they were. Why is the base still wet? I’m hesitant to install new tile on top until it’s dry. Help please!

ANSWER
Can you tell me if a pre-slope of a 1/4” per 12” was installed first then a liner placed over the preslope and sealed to the clamping ring drain, then the mud pack over that? Or, was a surface-applied waterproofing membrane installed on top of the sloped dry pack mud bed and sealed via the divot method to the clamping ring drain? If not, the mud pan is going to hold water if there is no membrane channeling it to the drain system.

Showers and pans are complex systems that must be installed properly to protect the rest of the structure they are installed in. I strongly suggest hiring a qualified professional to perform this installation. The NTCA is the world’s largest association of tile contractors. You can locate an NTCA Member contractor and a Certified Tile Installer in your area by visiting the following sites: www.tile-assn.com or www.ceramictilefoundation.org.

– Mark Heinlein,
NTCA technical trainer/presenter

RESPONSE

Thanks for the quick reply. It looks like I did all of the correct things outlined in your email with exception of the divot method. Now after reading up on the divot method I have questions. Does it require a drastic slope to the drain as shown in the picture below? Also does this method call for a paint-on membrane to be put on the very top? Let me know and thanks again for your time.

ANSWER

Either a liner on the pre-slope or a surface-applied membrane must be used. Not both. Whichever one is used, it must be properly sealed to the clamping ring drain. The divot allows for using a surface-applied membrane in lieu of a pre-slope and a liner with a clamping-ring drain system. Or, a bonding-flange drain system can be utilized to accommodate a surface-applied membrane.

There are many variables, techniques, best practices and standards that must be considered, applied and performed correctly in every tile installation. Showers and wet areas are especially critical. I suggest contacting a qualified, certified, knowledgeable, experienced professional using the links I sent previously. – M.H.

RESPONSE

Mark, thank you. I did the liner on the pre-slope so I should be okay. I just wasn’t sure why the base retained so much moisture even with the liner, slope, and weep holes all in working order.

ANSWER

Drainage issues could potentially be related to the site mix/recipe or consistency of the mix, method of application, etc. Perhaps the problem with the grout could be related to the type and mixing and application of grout or the type and mixing of the mortar and troweling technique used to bond the tile to the mud pack. – M.H.

 

Tech Tip Tuesday: Q & A With NTCA Training Director Mark Heinlein – 10/31/2017

Consumer Question:

Hello! I’m trying to find out if there is an industry standard for the conversion rate of m to kg for Porcelain tiles based on thickness and if so, where I would be able to find this information. Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Mark’s Response:

Thank you for contacting the National Tile Contractors Association.

The Tile Council of North America (TCNA) Handbook for Ceramic, Glass and Stone Tile Installation contains an Appendix (B) discussing “Estimated Weights for Floor Installations.”

This appendix provides a discussion of assumptions for dead load weights of ceramic and stone tile and related setting materials. The assumptions are given in terms of imperial / US Customary (pounds per square foot) measurement vice metric (kilograms per square meters).  Several tables giving the weight calculations for methods included in the handbook are provided in Appendix B.

If you do not own the TCNA Handbook, a copy can be purchased from the NTCA’s Online Store under the Industry Technical Manuals section at this link:  https://tile-assn.site-ym.com/store/default.aspx?

I hope this helps.

 

Mark Heinlein

NTCA Training Director

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